21-12-2009Interviews - Peter Hook

Im a big headed bastard - Rocksnail talks Peter Hook

It comes as no surprise even though we are well into the new millennium people in the music industry still want to talk about Peter Hook. His unique style of playing the bass is legendary and has put him in a small distinguished group of bass players who have successfully integrated their instrument into the forefront of their music. His roots are still firmly in Manchester and Hooky still continues to support the Manchester music scene. Throughout his long career he has been actively involved in every part of the music industry whether it be his association with the infamous Hacienda nightclub, producing albums with The Stone Roses and The Inspiral Carpets or being involved with charities such as Warchild. He has also been involved with many successful solo projects including Revenge and Monaco but he will be remembered fondly for his days with Joy Division and New Order. It was a tribute to all the members of the band that after the untimely death of Ian Curtis in May 1980 the remaining members of the band brushed themselves down and re formed as New Order. Many bands in the past have re formed for one reason or another and have not been able to reproduce previous success but New Order hit the road running and have become one of music's most celebrated bands. Hit Singles including 'True Faith', 'World in Motion', 'Regret', 'Blue Monday' and 'Waiting for the Sirens Call' and a enviable catalogue of albums, have all been successful on both sides of the Atlantic. Still involved in several projects Hook is now working with the group Freebass which is made up of three bassists, Including himself, Andy Rourke (formerly of The Smiths), Gary "Mani" Mounfield (formerly of The Stone Roses and currently in Primal Scream) and singer Gary Briggs (formerly of Haven) and they are just putting the finishing touches to their new album. Coupled with the forthcoming release of his new book- 'The Hacienda- How Not to Run a Club' and DJ'ing worldwide, this is a busy and productive time for the outspoken Manchester figurehead. Eager to start gigging again and looking forward to the future it was a good time for Dave Wilson to catch up with him - so he did.

So Peter you formed Joy Division in 1976
Hooky - don't remind me

In Salford - that was with Ian Curtis, Bernard Sumner and Stephen Morris. After Ian passed away in 1980 you formed New Order. We are now well into the millennium 30 years plus so you've been going for a long time now- What's the secret to longevity?
Hooky- There's only one good reason and that's writing good songs isn't it?

Yeah
Hooky- From what I gather there's a lot of musical schools you can go to these days and people can learn to play and I think they teach them to play very well but they don't teach them to write songs .I think that's the problem and I think that is one thing about Pop Idol and X Factor and all that crap its about people singing, well to me...

The best emotion conveyed is usually by people who can't sing well but who write wonderful songs and I think there is a huge difference and the only secret to longevity is to write good songs.

Was it actually in 1976 you were formed?
Hooky- We literally, I'm not kidding went to see the Sex Pistols. We walked out and formed a band.

Was that all of all four of you straight away?
Hooky No - It was me and Bernard and another school friend of ours who became our manager stroke sound guy Terry Mason - He lived in Leigh actually Laughter

Well the Buzzcocks come from just around the corner from me in Leigh. So the Sex Pistols - was that an influence for you at the time the punk scene?
Hooky- Not particularly musically it was about the freedom, I'd been through the teenage years and when you are a kid you've not got a fuckin' clue what you wanna do and the worlds a big daunting place when you're seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty - you know the biggest thing you wonder about is how your going to fit in and I'd always been a troublemaker since I was a kid - at school I was a troublemaker - so I didn't think I was going to fit in and I was right and what happened was that when I saw Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols I saw how I couldn't fit it in if that makes sense.

I went a different way but I did like the punk scene. Which goes on to your style of bass playing - a lot of music that you listen to now the bass is- it's a great instrument but it's in the background and you don't hear it but with your bass it's always been prominent hasn't it?
Hooky-Yeah

Was it something you wanted to do or did it just happen?
Hooky- I'm a big headed bastard - As Bernard said “You've got the biggest ego in rock n roll” He always says to me. It was strange. It was quite easy the way it happened because the thing about it was that I couldn't hear myself playing low and the only way I could hear myself because the equipment was shite was to play high And Ian Curtis whenever I played Ian Curtis would always say “Fuckin hell that sounds good - Barney just put some guitar to that - Steve just drum along to that" you know and you have 'Twenty four hours', 'Insight' and 'Love will Tear us apart' and you have a recognisable style so I mean it came from that and once I discovered that I found I had an ear for melody so I started writing the melodies.

So you have got this prominent bass and this goes well with the Ian Curtis vocals. Is it right you were originally called Warsaw ? How long did that last?
Hooky - Warsaw lasted six to nine months and the only reason why we changed the name was because there was a band in London called Warsaw Pact and they had got loads of publicity from recording direct to disc and we couldn't get it- they just got all the publicity Warsaw Pact and we were called Warsaw so it was just too confusing so we had to go to another name which was Joy Division. It was a great moment when we had a gig booked at the Elephant and Castle in London as Warsaw. I phoned up the booker and I said we've changed our name can you change the adverts and she said “what have you changed your name to?” I said “we've changed our name to Joy Division” and she said “you'll never get a gig with a name like that” and hung up.

It didn't work out that way did it?
Hooky - It was one of those moments

You did the first album and then in 1980 Ian passed away and at the time you were on the verge of doing a tour to the USA weren't you? It must have come as a great shock because at the time you were riding on the crest of a wave?
Hooky - Time is a great healer. With suicide the thing you never get is understanding - you can never understand why somebody especially with what he had could do something like that you know - he literally had his life before him - he had his career - he was so passionate about our music.

It comes across that way doesn't it?
Hooky - I couldn't believe he could do that - I couldn't believe he could have felt that low that he could do that and I still don't understand it which is the most painful thing that never goes but I live everyday with Ian. There's never a day goes by without me being reminded of Joy Division or what we had but the thing about everything is that you have to carry on. There are only two things in music that you can do - You can write great songs and you have to carry on and if anyone asks me the secret you know? What tip can you give me about making it in music - there's only one thing- you have just got to carry on which is what we did. We all knew Bernard and I and Steve and Rob Gretton that we didn't want to give up. We had seen this wonderful life which is much better than workin'- stretching out in front of you and none of us wanted to go back.

There's a lot of articles on the subject -It appears that nobody knew did they that it was coming?
Hooky- Well that isn't strictly true because he'd attempted suicide a couple of weeks before but the doctors had OK'd him to go out again.

I've listened all the way up to your last album with New Order - but the thing I find different is that the lyrics are a lot darker, albeit they are very good with Joy Division. Was that Ian's way of writing songs?
Hooky - His lyrics were fantastic

Unbelievable
Hooky- They were unbelievable. It's amazing and very unique.

Very simple weren't they?
Hooky - Very simple, but very direct.

It was a real gift you know and in many ways it wasn't until we got the recording of Unknown Pleasures that I ever heard the lyrics - I couldn't hear a fuckin' thing - the equipment was that shit you couldn't hear anything.

You've moved on from New Order and you have influenced a lot of bands - bands like U2 who have been heavily influenced haven't they by your music earlier on?
Hooky - Definitely yeah

Onto you current projects are you still working on Freebass?
Hooky - I'm doing Freebass today actually - We are doing a track called Stalingrad which is funnily enough a reggae track. Freebass has taken a long time to come together. It took a long time to get a singer and now we have a kid called Gary Briggs. He used to be in the band Haven. Basically he's just putting the finishing touches to the songs. We've written twelve and we've finished four and we have got another eight to finish off and then it'll be done. In this day and age with the internet you have to be so careful with music because if you want to make any impact with it you have to hang on to it so I've been quite successful at the moment hanging onto it because no ones heard it but its very frustrating because I've been working on it on it for so long - four years now- I'm desperate to get it out - I'm desperate to get gigging again - Its coming together and we've really worked hard on it and I'm very pleased.

I'll take it that will be an album soon?
Hooky - It's an album now to be quite honest. I've just got to finish the vocals. It will be out in September.

Have you any plans to tour?
Hooky - The thing is again you've got to put your foundations in - your foundations in your song - once you've finished the songs you can do anything. I'm hoping the Hacienda are doing a gig with Ian Brown in Ibiza in summer so I said to Gary why don't we put ourselves on so what Gary and I are working towards with Mani and Rourkey is premiering a few songs in Ibiza with Ian Brown.

You're doing a bit of DJ'ing as well?
Hooky - I do a lot of DJ'ing - Its funny I resisted DJ'ing valiantly because Barney always used to try to get me to do it in the 90's you know - 1988-1990 - when it all kicked off. When I became a DJ thanks to Mani I realised I fitted in perfectly. Mani inspired me to do it and since then I've been doing it for four years. I really enjoy it.

There also a book about the Hacienda?
Hooky - I've finished the book about the Hacienda 'How not to run a nightclub-The Hacienda'

When will that be out?
Hooky- I believe the release date is October 5th.

Going back to that was a massive iconic building in Manchester wasn't it?
Hooky - As a group we've been very lucky whether it's been skill, luck or talent I've no idea but you know - what New Order, Joy Division and Factory Records all together did together is pretty amazing you know - I mean most other groups all they do is play. It's an amazing thing to think that you know Tony Wilson, Rob Gretton, Martin Hannett, Joy Division, Ian Curtis, New Order - It changed the world - It was a hell of an achievement - even now.

We could go on for hours and hours. I'm just looking some of the gigs you played - You played the Hope and Anchor in London - that's a good old pub in London?
Hooky - It cost us 28 quid to get there.

Is it December 1978?
Hooky - yeah that was our first review which said “Joy Division were grim but I grinned”. I'll always remember the first line of that review.

So what does a young band do now?
Hooky - You have to play - You have to keep going - You have to do everything - its soul destroying the amount of work you have to do as a new group but the thing is if you don't do it you wont make anything and that is the way. I did a Jack Daniels thing for the TV last year with Channel 4 and I was watching a lot of young bands -There's loads of fantastic groups and literally there is no.....you cannot not get in a shitty old van and drive around the fuckin' country and play every hell hole in the world because if you don't do that you won't last. When you start off its soul destroying. You needed someone like Ian Curtis who had belief and passion. Ian was always the one that would pick us up when we had been sick of phoning people and getting fucked off for support gigs in London that you had to pay to get on - do you know what I mean?

So you've been in the Industry 30 years - the best advice is just to go out and tread the boards so to speak.
Hooky - You've got to live it every minute of the day. It's got to be the first thing that you think about because if it isn't you won't do it. As soon as we formed the group - Bernard, Ian and I and got Steve in - It was literally our first priority - It was above everything - that is the only way you can do it. There's so much competition - You know there's so many bands now and when you look at the back of the Sunday Times or whatever and see how many bands are playing. Its not only the bands from today its bands from thirty to forty years ago you are in competition with as well. It's difficult. You have to write great songs and keep going.

Thanks
Hooky - You're welcome mate it's nice to talk to you.